Discover and read the best of Twitter Threads about #PCAGA
Most recents (24)
A few thoughts about #pcaga O13 that failed this year.
(1) It has been said that using depositions or testimony from civil/criminal court in PCA judicial trials is better than removing restrictions on witness competency. While it may be possible to do this in /1
(1) It has been said that using depositions or testimony from civil/criminal court in PCA judicial trials is better than removing restrictions on witness competency. While it may be possible to do this in /1
some cases, church courts should be very careful before receiving these as evidence. The parties in the civil/criminal process are not the same parties in the church court. They may have different interests, and cross-examination by a prosecutor in a church court will have /2
different goals than a Plaintiff in a tort action. Parties don't align, and interests don't align. It can be unfair to the accused to bring these in, if they even exist at all. And reading a transcript is dramatically different from seeing somebody testify. /3
Postmil PCA pastor @pastoraldoleon, at a #PCAGA seminar:
"there is an effeminate Christ that many are holding to that is producing effeminate men ... this is why you see people in the PCA say [that] what people really need to know is the love of Christ"
"there is an effeminate Christ that many are holding to that is producing effeminate men ... this is why you see people in the PCA say [that] what people really need to know is the love of Christ"
"we have this weird romantic fetish with a suffering Christ and a victimized Christ ... Jesus is the modern day man who can't rule over his wife, [but rather] simply be a partner who listens, loves & encourages."
"he is a lord over Sunday hour but not over all other places and spaces. And this is why we have men that
actually believe that the only place where masculinity [and male headship] matters is in the church, but - guess what - everywhere else in creation, female rule is okay"
actually believe that the only place where masculinity [and male headship] matters is in the church, but - guess what - everywhere else in creation, female rule is okay"
Thoughts in light of the DASA Amendments:
Many were sent back to presbyteries without prejudice for more work. I’d encourage men to take up that charge. As it relates to O13 on atheist counsel, the minority truly failed to sway the majority. #pcaga
1/
Many were sent back to presbyteries without prejudice for more work. I’d encourage men to take up that charge. As it relates to O13 on atheist counsel, the minority truly failed to sway the majority. #pcaga
1/
I was a soft “no” on O13 and could have been swayed by the minority to vote for it. The minority report was well written (thanks @trevorilaurence), but it wasn’t well argued on the floor. Instead of appealing to the logic of the report,
2/
2/
I was given an appeal to emotion and an appeal to authority. These sorts of arguments dissuade me from voting with ANYONE (no matter the topic). IMO, it was unwise for the minority to leverage the work of the DASA committee (to disagree with me is to disagree with all of DASA)
3/
3/
Some thoughts after the #PCA50 #pcaga & kind of extension of this reflection I wrote last year. /1 theothoughts.com/2022/06/26/ten…
As mentioned in this piece, PCA ecclesial structure is what initially drew me to the denomination. Having come out of the non-denom world, I found the structure refreshing & mitigated the need for outside interference /2
In the right hands with humble & pastoral hearts, the structure with her procedures should work well foster the peace & purity of the church & care for all her members, protecting them from ills from outside & within. /3
O3, O5, O6, O8, O10, O14, O16,O24, O25, and O27 to approve Overtures Committee’s recommendation to be answered in the AFFIRMATIVE by a vote of 1769-43-19.
O23 to approve OC's recommendation to be answered in the AFFIRMATIVE as Amended by a vote of 1673-223-15. 88% 👍
1/
#pcaga
O23 to approve OC's recommendation to be answered in the AFFIRMATIVE as Amended by a vote of 1673-223-15. 88% 👍
1/
#pcaga
O9 to approve Overtures Committee’s recommendation to be answered in REFERENCE to O23 by a vote of 1773-106-23.
“In Reference” means that the assembly preferred a different Overture on the topic.
3/
“In Reference” means that the assembly preferred a different Overture on the topic.
3/
O17 to approve Overtures Committee’s recommendation to be answered in REFERENCE to O23 by a vote of 1771-97-22
O15 to approve Overtures Committee’s recommendation to be REFFERED back to Bryce Ave Presbyterian Church by a vote of 1725-139-8.
4/
O15 to approve Overtures Committee’s recommendation to be REFFERED back to Bryce Ave Presbyterian Church by a vote of 1725-139-8.
4/
I haven't said much on here about the recent PCA trial that I witnessed because it left me disheartened & frankly intimidated by the power of a top law firm being inserted into the church process. 🧵 1/ #pcaga #PCAGA50
Until 3 days ago, I had been a PCA church member for almost 40 years. I raised my 4 children in the PCA because I believed scripture was our rule of faith and practice.#pcaga #PCAGA50 2/
What I witnessed left me appalled. In my opinion, I witnessed the badgering of witnesses, 1 to the point of provocation, repeated attempts to put words in witnesses mouths, the revelation of seemingly unrelated sin confessed in confidence to a pastor to discredit the witness. 3/
1/5
This appears to be the #pcaga's new normal, what many in the PCA now appear to accept and support as the reasonable middle. Self-righteously positioning oneself in between the "two main culprits." And then identifying those culprits as:
This appears to be the #pcaga's new normal, what many in the PCA now appear to accept and support as the reasonable middle. Self-righteously positioning oneself in between the "two main culprits." And then identifying those culprits as:
2/5
Culprit #1: “Sort of Wilsonite, jaded, red-pilled men, sort of more toward hyper-patriarchy, priests of their family. We have this side.”
Culprit #2: "And then we have the other side.”
Culprit #1: “Sort of Wilsonite, jaded, red-pilled men, sort of more toward hyper-patriarchy, priests of their family. We have this side.”
Culprit #2: "And then we have the other side.”
3/5 “. . . @kkdumez @sheilagregoire @bethallisonbarr @aimeebyrdPYW @R_Denhollander. . . screeching about how men are just NEVER trustworthy, and in order for the church to be a safe space for women, women have to run it."
Today @RScottClark authored a post regarding an upcoming overture to the #PCAGA petitioning the government to renounce sins related to transgenderism. That article can be found here. 1/12 heidelblog.net/2023/03/cases-…
In it, Dr. Clark argues that the current situation regarding transgenderism in the U.S. does not satisfy the language of "cases extraordinary" under which WCF XXXI.4 permits synods and councils to petition the civil government. 2/12
He appeals to a quote from A. A. Hodge in his Commentary on the Confession of Faith, while acknowledging that earlier writers employed broader terminology. 3/12
1/ The pastor referenced here is a Presbyterian Church in America pastor. I know I will never be able to do enough to repent and make restitution for my 35+ years in the PCA and the part I played to grow and expand a system built on a foundation of racism and misogyny.
2/ But one thing I can do is pray for & appeal to the brothers and sisters of good faith still in that denomination.
3/ The PCA pastors that welcomed me in and helped train me for ministry either are (I know because I have talked to them) or would be (I am confident in saying, though they have passed into glory) ASHAMED of who the #pcaga has become.
🧵
1/ As a former member of the Presbyterian Church in America’s Standing Judicial Commission (“Supreme Court”) and longtime pastor in the PCA, I need to speak out against the vile miscarriage of justice in the #pcaga ruling in the Dan Herron trial.
1/ As a former member of the Presbyterian Church in America’s Standing Judicial Commission (“Supreme Court”) and longtime pastor in the PCA, I need to speak out against the vile miscarriage of justice in the #pcaga ruling in the Dan Herron trial.
2/ I am not able (and never will be) to say all that needs to be said. I will be adding to this thread for the foreseeable future. But I want to say three things upfront:
3/ * I resigned my membership in the PCA 2 yrs ago in part because of the rampant & growing misogyny I was experiencing. My effigy was subsequently excommunicated for leaving in ☮️ (cf. this other 🧵); so I write this as a former “insider”/now “outsider” twitter.com/jdhutch64/stat…
Church historians take note!!!
PCA history was made, when, in September 2016, @forejessica painted a dress with all the names her presbytery clerk had called her and wore it to a presbytery meeting.
#ChurchToo #PCAtoo
jessicafore.wordpress.com/2017/09/18/pca…
PCA history was made, when, in September 2016, @forejessica painted a dress with all the names her presbytery clerk had called her and wore it to a presbytery meeting.
#ChurchToo #PCAtoo
jessicafore.wordpress.com/2017/09/18/pca…
Priot to this, in April, @JessicaForeGA had attended another presbytery meeting to which she carried a protest sign reading "Justice not Abuse". She would later take this to worship & lay it at her feet in lament, an act her fellow congregants used as evidence of her impropriety.
Six yrs later, the Ad Interim Committee on Domestic Abuse & Sexual Assault delivered its report. Jessica Fore was named at #PCAGA but appears nowhere in the written report, a glaringly disrespectful omission.
Now that #pcaga is over, I want to offer some reflections. (Mega 🧵 ahead)
Overall, I am pleased with the assembly even though a few matters did not got the way I had hoped.
1 of abt 45
Overall, I am pleased with the assembly even though a few matters did not got the way I had hoped.
1 of abt 45
But before I talk abt the business, let me offer a few reflections on non-business related joys.
First of all, like last year, I was most encouraged by the fellowship gathering on Wednesday night at Oak Mt. Presbyterian, aka, “Mike’s Dinner.”
2/
First of all, like last year, I was most encouraged by the fellowship gathering on Wednesday night at Oak Mt. Presbyterian, aka, “Mike’s Dinner.”
2/
About 500 people gathered to sing, pray, hear Russ Whitfield preach, and then eat together outside in a beautiful setting.
The Fellowship Gathering highlights some of the best stuff happening in the PCA: church planting, a new urban seminary, women using their gifts...
3/
The Fellowship Gathering highlights some of the best stuff happening in the PCA: church planting, a new urban seminary, women using their gifts...
3/
We’re now at the order of the day: nominating committee.
We vote in appointments to various permanent committees.
#pcaga
We vote in appointments to various permanent committees.
#pcaga
There seems to be a movement to replace those who have been serving and replace them with new elders.
#pcaga
#pcaga
In the lead up to #PCAGA I'm remembering the case, the woman, the violence that launched the Study Committee on Domestic Abuse and Sexual Assault.
This is a valuable thread concerning "identity" - Dr. Swain looks at two different ways this happens - evaluative and classificatory. In the former, a person who identifies in a certain way is simply evaluating themselves, seeing who they are; in the latter, they are categorizing
...themselves. Read the thread. My critique is that the concerns about identity that the #PCAGA has been dealing with relate to church officers. They are public figures, and so the way that they are heard is even more important than what they intend to say.
The words of a pastor or elder as he teaches are critical to salvation. They cannot be sloppy or misunderstood, even if the misunderstanding is the fault of the hearer. An example or two...
🧵I have waited a few days to post after the Central Indiana Presbytery's meeting last week and I have some thoughts. Mainly, this is a wicked group of men who approve of bullying and sexual abuse. /1
I do not say this lightly, but we have been in process for 3 years and this should have gone to trial YEARS ago at this point. Also, during the first year (maybe year and a half) of process, Dan Herron has been allowed to vote and put forth motions on his case. /2
The original commission assigned to investigate Dan Herron told 5 witnesses that they believed the accusations of spiritual and sexual abuse as well as bullying, they just didn't think that Herron should lose his job. /3
𝟏/𝟑𝟐 In the wake of the #PCAGA, Kevin Twit (@kevinjtwit) argued that “union with Christ language” is superior to “identity in Christ language,” thus setting them at odds with each other & alleging that the latter unduly focuses on believers more than on Christ.
𝟐/𝟑𝟐 This was a sequel to his suggestion on the floor of the GA that those who interpret 1 Cor 6:9-11 as ruling out a “gay Christian identity” subscribe to a Keswick/Wesleyan view of sanctification (Thursday Closing Business Session, start at 2:05:33.) livestream.com/accounts/85219…
𝟑/𝟑𝟐 Working from Twit’s argument, Greg Johnson (@PcaMemorial) argued that “‘identity in Christ’ theology” is “quite recent,” called it a “theological fad,” & associated it with the non-Reformed sanctification teaching of Neil T Anderson, Miles J Stanford & Keswick theology.
𝟏/𝟐𝟐 This is highly misleading. If Greg Johnson was trying to say he didn’t think 𝑎𝑛𝑦 of his critics are “southern pietistic moralists” (whatever that’s supposed to mean), he failed to communicate it & in fact implied the opposite, even in his attempts to clarify himself.
𝟐/𝟐𝟐 First of all, to claim that it’s even possible to posit that an “an attack from pietistic southern moral𝑖𝑠𝑚” doesn’t intend to imply the existence of actual & particular “pietistic southern moral𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑠” who are involved in that attack is an exercise in obfuscation.
𝟑/𝟐𝟐 Second, to say, “I’m not intending to paint any of my 𝑔𝑜𝑜𝑑-𝑓𝑎𝑖𝑡ℎ critics as pietistic moralists” is so worded as to seem most likely to be naturally & reasonably understood as implying the existence 𝑛𝑜𝑛-good-faith critics whom he does intend to paint as such.
🧵on #pcaga re: what’s happened w/ the overtures on ordination & same-sex attraction (SSA), what's it mean, how did we get here, & what do I think. I was on the overtures committee (OC), helped craft the final language of O23, & contributed to the minority report of O37.
1/
1/
First: What happened at #pcaga?
GA passed 2 overtures to change the PCA Book of Church Order (BCO). This is step 1 of 3. Step 2 requires 2/3 of the presbyteries to approve the changes by majority vote before next GA, & step 3 a majority vote next GA. Nothing has changed, yet.
2/
GA passed 2 overtures to change the PCA Book of Church Order (BCO). This is step 1 of 3. Step 2 requires 2/3 of the presbyteries to approve the changes by majority vote before next GA, & step 3 a majority vote next GA. Nothing has changed, yet.
2/
Overture 23 deals with the qualifications for officers in the PCA, amending BCO 16 on church orders & the doctrine of vocation to church office by adding a 4th paragraph. (more below)
3/
3/
Thread. #PCAGA is at an urgent cultural moment. The reigning cultural narrative is that “Christians hate gay people.” I hear from SSA youth who feel unsafe in our churches. Youth who contemplate suicide. Parents who lost their teen to suicide. It’s still not safe for SSA kids.
I am not just saying we're at risk of losing our SSA members. That’s a given. I'm saying we're at risk of losing the next generation. They look around & don’t see any openly same-sex attracted people in their church. The see an adversarial posture toward gays that grieves them.
They haven’t seen the costly obedience of same-sex attracted believers telling them, “Jesus is worth it!”
We can change that.
The world is saying Christians hate gay people.
Your children and grandchildren need to see you prove them wrong.
We can change that.
The world is saying Christians hate gay people.
Your children and grandchildren need to see you prove them wrong.
When straight ppl get together to talk about their struggle against sexual sin, it’s normal, expected, part of healthy “accountability,” a way to fight against ongoing temptation.
When gay ppl do the same thing, it’s part of defining ourselves by sin.
When gay ppl do the same thing, it’s part of defining ourselves by sin.
I can’t count the number of church community groups I’ve seen for straight men over the years to discuss their ongoing struggles against sexual temptation.
I can’t count the number of PASTORS I’ve seen admit from the PULPIT that they have a porn addiction & keep covenant eyes on their devices to help them stay accountable to their wife and overseers.
This morning, most people will be tied up in seminars, business meetings, and networking. The assembly will reconvene at 11am.
Study report on sexuality will be delivered at 1:45pm.
#pcaga
Study report on sexuality will be delivered at 1:45pm.
#pcaga
Great thread for #pcaga
Review of presbytery records should be the first item of business at 11am. There is an important issue here abt presbyteries restricting an elder from teaching an exception to the standards.
#pcaga
#pcaga
#pcaga is now assembled. We finished our opening worship service, quorum has been established, and we will soon elect a new moderator.
We’re working on testing electronic voting devices.
#pcaga
#pcaga
On to the election of a moderator.
#pcaga
#pcaga
#PCAGA Overture Update: "Southeast Alabama Presbytery joins with Savannah River Presbytery and Central Georgia Presbytery in requesting that the General Assembly assume original jurisdiction in the case of the doctrinal error of Teaching Elder Greg Johnson per BCO 34-1."
References/joins overtures 2 and 4: pcaga.org/resources/#ove…
